Unsere Webseite verwendet Cookies!

[FelixJaguar]

Hi Guys.

I would appreciate some help or advise from you.
I am living in Sweden and was looking for a F Type in Germany because the amount of cars is much greater than in Sweden.
So I wanted a R Dynamic and started looking on the web. After a while I found a very nice 2018 R Dynamic 340 HP with panorama roof, Premium-Velour, Black Pack, 20"6 Doppel Spoke Style 6003-wheels and lots
of other extras at a authourized Jaguar dealer. I got in contact with an agent who would transport the car from the dealer in Monchen-Gladbach to Sweden.

So I transferred the money, signed the contract and paid the agent for the transport.
When the car arrived it had a different set of wheels. Instead of the grey Gyrodyne wheels the car came with silver Turbine wheels.

Of course I contacted the seller at the dealership who said he would look into it.
After writing and calling him for about six weeks, today I got the answer that the car was mistakenly photographed with the wrong rims and that he sent photos of the Turbine wheels to my agent.
But there was no written agreement that the rims would be changed from Gyrodyne to Turbine and the photos mostly shows how many millimeters of rubber there is on the rims.

So my question to you is... is there any good way for me to make the seller send the correct wheels to me? Is he trying to cheat me?

Because all the pictures of the car and even "Fahrzeugsbeschreibung" of the car states that the wheels should be Gyrodyne.
I enclose photos of the car in the advertisement and how it looked when it was delievered.

PS I love the F Type, but i only bought this car because of the combination of the paint, black pack and Gyrodyne wheels. Otherwise I would look for this combination at an other dealer.

Thanks in advance,
/Felix

[SpeedFlap]

"mistakenly photographed with the wrong rims" is bullshit excuse in my opinion, especially since the Gyrodyne were mentioned in the description.

The 20" Turbine were never sold together with a 2018 model. They were pre-facelift options and ended in early 2016.
That seems more than just a simple dealer error. If he won't deliver what was agreed on, I would consider contacting a german lawyer. The first consultation is normally for free, and he usually will estimate the chance for success on your claim. The dealer shall never think he can get away with this practice, just because you are located far away.
The most important question probably is: Did you sign a purchase contract stating different wheels, before you paid the money?

If you want to compare, check the german price lists here:
https://www.mobilverzeichnis.de/download-auto-preislisten-nach-marken-und-typen/category/456-jaguar-f-type

Cheers,
Claus

[FelixJaguar]

Hi Claus and thanks for answering!

I also suspected that the Turbine rims were outdated and could not have been part of the R Dynamic facelift wheels.
There is no mention of Turbine wheels in the contract and the "Fahrzeugdetails" says that there are Style 6003 wheels included.
The seller claims that he has informed that the car will come with the Turbine wheels and the proof he provides is a WhatsApp conversation he had with my agent. I have read it many times but I cannot anyhow see that there is a change of agreement written in the coversation. Since it is in German I could be wrong but how do you interpret the conversation?

I enclose the Fahrzeugdetails and the conversation the seller claims proves the wheels will be changed.
(You have to click the link called "Beschreibung" to read the PDF)

I appreciate the help from you since I do not know how the consumers rights are in Germany. I feel that I have been fooled and that the seller should send me the Gyrodyne wheels.

Many thanks!
/Felix

[ErikFT]

Good morning,

in the posted conversation there is no mentioning of changing wheels. It only states he is putting on new tires.
If the gyrodyne are in the description and the contract does not state otherwise, I would also recommend contacting a german lawyer.

Some German to interpret the documents:

Reifen -> Tires
Felgen -> Rims
Räder -> Wheels (rims + tires)

Good luck and happy driving!
Erik.

[Hophead]

Contact a lawyer!

[FelixJaguar]

It seems that contacting a lawyer is a good idea. Thanks for the input.
I have a copy of the contract, would you be able to see if there is anything bad for me in it if I show it here?

Cheers; Felix

[SpeedFlap]

Sure we could see, but *possibly* it may be not a good idea to post the contract publicly, although I don't see clear contra indication. But I am not a lawyer myself, and just don't want to put you in a possible disadvantage doing so.
You still may send it as a private message though.

And I confirm that from what can be seen from the chat screenshots -- as far as they are complete -- you could expect to have new tires, but not a single word or indication about receiving different rims.

[FTypeAndi1973]

Hello Felix,

did you call your agent again? WhatsApp text was clearly about the depth of the profile of the tires (vier neue Reifen), but not the rims. This cannot be a problem at all. Is it possible that the seller doesn't speak English well? Can't you let a friend of yours call who speaks good German and then clears this up quickly without a lawyer? From my point of view, the evidence is clear and speaks against the seller.

I wish you all the best...

BR

Andi

[blanni]

Agree on Andis opinion. Somebody who is fluent in German should clarify with a lawyer who is close to the seller. Then the lawyer will claim against that.

Blanni

[FelixJaguar]

Hi guys, first thank you for interacting with me.
I am right now looking for a lawyer in the Dusseldorf area to help me.
My agent speaks German fluently and he says that the seller said nothing about change of rims.

I am starting to believe that the seller made a mistake and gave back the wheels to the former owner who bought a new F Type. The seller then tried to cover up by giving me a set of old wheels that were lying around.
This is of course only me speculating but here is a SMS-conversation from the seller so you can judge by yourself.
I also include the whole picture which the seller claims is the proof that the Turbine rims will be shipped instead of the Gyrodynes.But again, nothing in the text says anything about a change of rims.

Thanks again; /Felix

[FTypeAndi1973]

what I have not yet understood is this! How did the discussion about the tread depth even come about? Only after you complained about the wrong rims? Why did your agent discuss profile depth with the seller? I can't quite classify this process.

[FTypeAndi1973]

Hello Felix,

In the sales contract is the rim Style 6003. But you didn’t get this! What is under the special agreements in your sales contract? According to the WhatsApp from your seller to the agent, this should be expanded. Just the new tires or other rims as well?

Andi

[FelixJaguar]

The discussion about the depth of the tires came about when I asked my agent to check with the dealer (about the depth) a week or so before the car was transported from Germany to Sweden. I wanted to know if I would have "legal" tire depth when importing the car. Otherwise I would have to buy new tires before the registration inspection in Sweden.

So the seller showed the tire depth and said he would fit new tires. But he didn't mention anything about other rims.

In the sales contract there is nothing mentioned about wheels, just the usual formalia.

Cheers; /Felix

[SpeedFlap]

Felix,

In case the contract does not mention the wheels, then the original offer jumps into place when it comes to product properties.
It does not matter for you why the seller made a fault in the offering. He is to blame for the fault, so he must remedy the deficiencies.

Did your agent sign something like a delivery approval with your procuration when he picked up the car?

[FelixJaguar]

Hi SpeedFlap.

No, I have no information about a deliver approval signing.
And the seller only refers to the WhatsApp conversation when claiming that there was an agreement to send the Turbine wheels. He mentions nothing else.

Regards; Felix

[SpeedFlap]

The rims could be partially seen on the images. But I must admit I would probably also not have recognized that something was wrong with them, unless seen in full size.

So the legal dispute will focus on the question, if these images would have been sufficient information to notify you about different rims being part of the offer, depending on when you got them.

[Darksun]

Gyrodyne and Turbine 20" rims (new) are both available for around 2900€ from resellers in Germany.
https://www.jaguar-shop.com/epages/62413452.sf/de_DE/?ViewAction=View&ObjectID=22100969&PageSize=30&Page=2

So, I don't see any intention for your seller to fool you to make a better deal.
I think it might just be a mistake. Nervertheless, on your costs.
Maybe you can negotiate some compensation,
before getting in touch with layers, which usually takes a lot of time and nerves.

[FelixJaguar]

Yes, sure could be a mistake.
But it’s a total bummer for me. I was looking for that exact
specification with those rims. Otherwise I would just find another one that had these wheels.
I have now contacted a German lawyer and he’s reviewing the case.
I’ll keep you guys updated.
Cheers!

[FelixJaguar]

OK, so finally I got the lawyer to act :)
He will initially send a letter to the seller requesting the wheels or economic compensation.

Let's see how that works.

Regards, Felix

[thocar]

Good Luck

[FelixJaguar]

Hi guys!
Finally an update :)

After getting zero done by the lawyer I contacted eventually I turned to the European Consumers Centres Network which is a free service for consumers regarding issues with consumers rights.

So I provided all information I had and the Swedish agent interacted with the German counterpart and around October I got indications that the seller would send me the correct alloys.
However, and after contacting the consumer agent several times because no wheels arrived, last week they finally arrived!!!
Four Gyrodyne wheels, as stated in the original contract.
Now, while I'm happy to receive them I am also very disappointed in how the company treated me from the start until now. Also, no apologies have been sent by them and I intend to name this company in a weeks time so others can avoid them.

The important lesson here is to never give up!

Cheers!

[FTypeAndi1973]

fine, that´s are good news....
TOP

Andi

[Elios1]

Nice, good to hear that. But at the same time very depressing to see that such vendors still exist...

Who was the vendor exactly? This could surely helo other potential buyers here in Germany.

Cheers!

[FelixJaguar]

There is a hint in one of the pictures... :)
But I'm waiting for them to accept my old rims returned before I write the name out because I don't want more trouble with them.